I haven’t really been covering the budget negotiations much, since, well, nothing is actually happening. There’s a little bit of posturing here and there, but by and large there’s no sign of any breakthroughs yet.
However, I did run across the following in an article about preparing for life with no budget, should the current fiscal year expire with no agreement in place:
Democrats earlier in the session pledged to either hold the line on income taxes or decrease them for middle- and low-income residents by hiking the rates on the wealthy, boosting property tax credits and establishing an earned-income tax credit. The maximum rate would have jumped from 5.5 percent to nearly 7 percent.
Amann yesterday said he is now talking about “very meager increases” and is offering to raise the income levels for the higher tax rates.
Initially, the party had proposed boosting income taxes on joint filers earning $190,000 and more. After some members of the Fairfield County delegation complained, that number was bumped to $250,000.
Amann said yesterday he would be open to starting at the $500,000 level. But he said Rell must reconsider her support for eliminating the inheritance tax levied on estates worth more than $2 million. The tax on the wealthy brings in more than $100 million annually. (Lockhart)
So it looks like the progressive income tax is still alive; although if it does emerge from the negotiations, I have to assume it won’t be all that satisfying for a lot of its supporters.
So the estate tax vs. the progressive income tax seems to be the sticking point, here. Always about the rich… What do you think? Which would you rather see in the next state budget?
| What would you rather see? | |
|
| The progressive income tax but NO estate tax |
|
| The progressive income tax AND the estate tax |
|
| The estate tax but NO progressive income tax |
|
| Neither a progressive income tax nor the estate tax |
|
| Some combination I haven’t thought of |
|
| |
26 responses so far ↓
There’s also a good article from the Journal Inquirer here:
Rell Still Seeks Break For Rich
My understanding is that the progressive rates under consideration still make the income tax less than most states in the Union. However, when you add in the property tax, sales taxes, payroll taxes, gas tax, etc. CT is one of the highest taxed states. I don’t like to pay taxes any more than the next person, but I realize that the benefits we receive from government are not free and that the government has an obligation to provide some of those services even if I don’t need them. I guess it si asking too much of our legislators to spend wisely and tax prudently.
Yes… the JI didn’t show their naked buttocks with that headline now did they? I guess we’ll never see the appropriate headline from them: “Dems Still Fight To Tax Your Underpants”
I don’t have a problem with the elimination of the tax break on clothing or groceries. It seems odd that some things should be taxed but other things not taxed. I know, people will say something about the poor being hit harder with these taxes, but there has to be a better way of helping the poor than arbitrarily defining some classes of good as taxable and other classes of good non-taxable. Ideally, the sales tax overall would be lower, but everything taxed equally. Then, if you wanted to have some sort of transfer payment to the poor, that’d be more efficient than not taxing all groceries for everyone or all clothes under $50. I’m all for broad tax breaks, but I think that targeted tax breaks create distortions and should be used sparingly.
DeLuca just resigned as leader.
DeLuca Resigns Role As Minority Leader
no real shock there. nor is there a shock that he will keep his senate seat.
Geez Louise, when is the mustachioed Don Williams (Rico….Suave) going to send out little Pat Scully to stamp his feet and ridicule Republicans for having better ideas on a budget?
Amann is so infatuated with has-been actors (Cathy Moriarty, James Noble of the famous and often remembered Benson sit-com) I wnder if he would agree to cutting their estate tax?
In all seriousness, cutting taxes work… as evidenced with the film industry. Since Governor Rell’s initiative (just kidding) we have a fairly active film industry going on. Cutting taxes works.
Why don’t the Dems apply the same economics and principles to the estate tax, income tax, corporate tax. Cut it and they will come.
When I think of Don Williams and little Pat Scully… it’s like Fantasy Island. You have a big suave latinate fellow, his paroting midget dressed just like him, and the overarching theme is the pursuit of escaping reality.
El Kabong and Headless…
Come on…Pat Scully is a paid spokesperson who is doing his job. Just like the other communications pros at the Capitol, both D and R, they should be off-limits. They are not making policy.
Even people who actively push and write policy should be (semi) off-limits as the reps. and senators still need to decide whether or not to accept those ideas.
As a former state employee at the Cap., I can tell you that besides some individual personality conflicts and healthy competition among staff, generally staffers respect eachother regardless of party. I know I had (and continue to have) great respect for the professionalism and on a personal level for most, if not all, staffers from the other side of the aisle.
Scully isn’t off limits. He is the only caucus communications guy I know who operates like he does… when Don WIlliams is afraid to say something, he sends Little Pat on 1080 a.m. to say it. He also sends him out in front of the cameras for interviews. Name me one other caucus communications guy who does that.
That may be true about the staff at the capitol… I hadn’t heard that.
God bless you for working up there. It must have been quite the adventure!
I guess we will have to go by our own individual values on this one…I think that staffers are off-limits if they are just doing their job.
And in your post arguing the counter, you state with both examples “…he (Williams) sends…” which kind of makes my point that he is just doing his job - and well at that I must add. I think Pat Scully is one of the best press and media guys I have ever met and Sen. Williams’ and previously Sen. Sullivan’s counting on him to speak on their behalf on radio and in front of the press buttresses that.
And I will take your “God bless you for…” statement both literally and facetiously as either way would be accurate.
Whoa Famillionaire,
Gotta disagree with you bigtime there.
First, I agree that I would likely not make remarks about most staff people I see in the media. But Scully is a far different kettle o’ fish.
When a Dem Senator is criticized in print media, the Senator him or herself does not respond with a letter to the editor or statement—they get Scully to do so for them. A very cowardly system of PR and one that gives him a more visable public presence than other staff.
Also, while Williams and even Amann treat the GOP points with some degree of respect (other than the gas tax stuff, which seemed to throw the tough guy into a tailspin), Scully responds much differently. He quite often does so with ridicule and insult. It makes even Roy O look downright gentlemanly in comparision.
It makes Scully stand out big time and in my opinion, he’s definitely not off-limits.
(and if you worked at the Capitol, my hats off to you. The egos and agendas you must have dealt with would probably kill most mortals.)
El Kabong
While I continue to disagree - I can understand your feelings. He does have a remarkably smooth way of giving backhanded and sometimes iin-your-face ridicule and insult…something many in PR, media and communications wish they had.
And as for your statement: “(and if you worked at the Capitol, my hats off to you. The egos and agendas you must have dealt with would probably kill most mortals.)” - yeah, lots of egos and agendas, but also a lot of truly intelligent and great men and women with good ideas who are working for what they believe is right. And yes…it was slowly killing me as well. I dont know how some really smart people stay there so long (most don’t), but I applaud their commitment to civil service.
famillionaire:
I think we can agree on something, you have tremendous admiration for the guy, I don’t fathom it at all.
“Remarkably smooth”?
Sounds like something Billy Dee Williams would say while peddling Colt 45 or perhaps something out the Marlboro Man’s bag o’ tricks.
It doesn’t take any kind of finesse to level nasty stuff on officials he’ll never, ever have to sit in the same room with to negotiate legislation or anything else.
Sen. Williams is lucky Frank Perdue Jr. hasn’t hunted him down yet for employing Scully to do his dirty work for him. The other leaders at least have the guts (yeah, even DeLuca) to speak for themselves and sign their names to letters in newspapers.
I just spent a few moments reviewing the results of this simple poll so far and I wonder what conclusions any others may make of the results so far.
As I see it, a total of 43% of those voting (56/129) are voting against the estate tax. 47 of those voting in that total also against a progressive income tax, the other 9 just against the estate tax.
While only 32% of those voting (42/129) actually are voting for the estate tax.
It certainly makes me wonder about the logic of those who think that accumulating $2MM of wealth from various sources, over the course on ones lifetime, is only done by those considered “upper class”…..
Rather, this simple poll seems to make it clear that at a $2MM starting point this tax is really a concern to a lot of middle class tax payers……..Unless we are to presume that almost half of those posting and voting on CLP are upper class people.
To be fair I should add that I guess it could be possible the reason so many are against this tax is because it goes from 0% to 5% at $2MM instead of phasing in at that point. But still, obviously because so many seemed concerned about this tax I think it’s clear, this is hardly a tax that hits only the “rich”.
Any other thoughts on how to view the results so far and why so many people voting in this poll are against this estate tax, esp. if it were as it is being sold, only a tax on upper class people?
As I reread my post #17 from last night let’s see if this old engineer can do a better job with the basic math in this poll this morning.
As of this morning, 75/137 of those voting are one way or another voting AGAISNT the estate tax ( or at least I assume, in it’s current form)…….That works out to 55% of those who have voted so far.
Also as of this morning, 59/137 of those voting are one way or another voting FOR the estate tax ( or at least would also assume as it is currently structured) That works out to 43%…..
While the actual difference 55% vs. 43% is not all that great, it is clear that at this point more than half of those voting in this poll, are voicing their concern about the estate tax for one reason or another…. That does surprise me, given that I am sure far less than the 55% voting against this tax would have ever considered themselves anywhere near “upper class”, and therefore unconcerned about an estate tax levied only on “upper class” taxpayers..
Given that this tax is supposed to be only a tax on the “rich” , “upper class” taxpayers of this state I question why so many here at CLP would vote against this tax. After all isn’t this tax, only a tax imposed on those who we are so often also told, don’t pay their fair share to begin with?
I have to assume that as more people learn about this tax, (here and other places) and take the time to add up their assets, they are shocked to learn that they in the eyes of our General Assembly, have suddenly become “upper class”.
For me it’s clear, I believe much of the revenue this tax currently derives and will continue to derive is really coming from mostly middle class tax payers ( who are more house, and life insurance rich, than actually wealthy ), and not from the relatively few really upper class estates owned by those who are truly wealthy.
Al,
Thats one reading. Another might be that there are more Republicans that participate here than Democrats. I’d say this place has become at least 60% Rs simply because there is no R blog in CT that has broken into the top 10.
PS-
Sorry Al,
If you croak with 2million+ in assets your within the top 10% in terms of wealth and thats not the middle of anything.You’ve done well.Be Proud you’ve reached the American dream of upper class status.
Hi Keith,
I think you’ve certainly registered one possibility but I sort of doubt that is the full answer to my question… I mean come on Keith 55% voting so far say no to this tax, are you suggesting all Republicans are ‘rich” and “upper class”? Well I guess you probably are!!!!
….But I sort of don’t think so.
I think there is a far more plausible answer. There are far more people starting to understand they will be affected by this tax here in CT than you suspect. In fact you even touched on of the very answers yourself….In many cases it’s only once people die that they suddenly become “rich” ……..
What really bugs me even more here is that what this tax does once people learn about it, is to cause people to actually plan around it. The state can count how much revenue it actually gets from this tax fairly easily, but it cannot count how much revenue this tax will cost the state as more people learn how to shelter their assets from this tax. Including those who finally decide to just get out of the state altogether.
OK so I will assume you would not plan around it if you were affected, but I suspect you are among the few so noble to let the state pick your pocket even after your dead.
To be honest, I don’t disagree that $2MM is no small number, clearly it’s not chump change, but I totally disagree that here in CT with the cost of housing that this tax only affects the truly wealthy. Additionally it’s absurd that if you die here with an estate of $1.999MM your free of this tax, but add one dollar more and make it an even $2MM and you suddenly owe $100M in estate taxes….. Damn, if you just threw that one dollar away you’d never find a better ROI anywhere!!!!!!!
I would have far less disagreement with this tax if it excluded only your primary CT home from the calculation and or your life insurance polices….Second, third and even forth homes here in CT, or anywhere else, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, 401K, IRA’s, etc should all stay, and if they added up to over $2MM we would then be talking about truly wealthy upper class people.
In fact I’ll go you one better, even if just some indexed percentage of the first home’s value that moved with the housing market was discounted from the calculation, along with your life insurance polices. I’d think this tax then would be far more fair, and far more targeting to the truly wealthy.
But of course if anything were done to make this a fairer tax for those middle class taxpayers, who only become upper class taxpayers because they have a nice home, and die with a life insurance policy or two, along with a few other investment, that would mean far less income from this tax for of General Assembly to use as it sees fit.
In any case, thanks for the reasonable discussion with me on this, even if we do disagree…
[quote comment="13085"]Al,
Thats one reading. Another might be that there are more Republicans that participate here than Democrats. I’d say this place has become at least 60% Rs simply because there is no R blog in CT that has broken into the top 10.
[/quote]
Top ten what? I wasn’t aware Casey Kasem did a weekly top 40 of CT political blogs.
There is no conversational political blog expressly for conservatives in the vein of MyLeftNutmeg because it would be a flop. Thing is, we conservatives like to debate the issues, confident enough in our ability to argue or points. That’s why many of us are here I’m sure.
“MyLeft Nutmeg” is a success for liberal bloggers because they’re more comfortable sitting around with themselves reassuring each other that they are brilliant, intellectual and compassionate. Conservatives don’t need that kind of reinforcement since our ideas aren’t weak
Nonetheless, your reading of the above poll is totally incorrect. A quantitative analysis of this kind of data requires a bigger sample. In other words, it doesn’t mean a single thing really.
But if you feel the poll above is innacurate because there’s too many conservatives here, try going back to the Quinnipiac poll this past spring and refresh your memory as to what percentage of respondents preferred the Republican ‘No Tax Increase’ budget over the Democrats’ “progressive” tax hike on our underpants.
That poll was a scientific and meaningful.
Any of these types of polls are meaningless as HH says.
They are a meaningful as a poll that lets me vote for Manny 25 times for the MLB All-Star Game.
Of course that 44% number in the Q Poll who support the Republican No Tax Increase Budget must be impressing some at the budget negiotation table or the Dems would be beating their chests with the progressive speeches.
GET THIS STRAIGHT THE PROPOSED PROGRESSIVE INCOME IS DEAD, MOVE ON!
Hi Headless,
I have to admit you have hit a nail on the head here for me….. I was told about this blog site over a year ago when I started blogging on a site that never went anywhere, that Kevin Sullivan had set up called, Let’s Talk Connecticut.
I looked in here maybe for 3 months before I posted my first post here…….
While I do enjoy posting here and I have learned quite a bit as a result, I must say I am very disappointed at the lack of real in depth debate on issues. I was hoping for much more. This state is a mess and I am shocked so few seem to understand that, or maybe don’t even care.
I fully admit that I tend to lean more right than left, and am very sensitive to any anti business attitudes, because like it or not, without good paying jobs, this state has no future at all, especially since the cost of government here is so oppressive to us all. On the other hand so much of what the lefties on this site say they want could be had if this state had a thriving economy.
I really don’t care if I am right in my arguments, I am more interested in learning what is right. To that end I wish this site did provide more intellectual discussion, rather than so much of the same crap we hear from the politicians we elect. I would be happy as you point out to argue with anyone any points I post, but it’s very hard to do that with people only interested in forcing their point of view on you. In the end if each of us is less concerned with being right, and more concerned with helping each other on this site collectively learn what is right, we can better direct those we elect. In spite of what at least one lost soul here thinks I do hate with a passion blind partisan party politics. You know the kind that always puts what is better for the party ahead of what is better for us.
BTW, I do agree as a scientific instrument this poll is far from valid. But still, it is so very interesting that so many people voting understand the hidden message this tax sends to those people who in many cases are the very people who decide where the really good jobs this state so much needs, go.
Thanks for listening…As this old Red Sox fan tries very hard on this Friday night not to spoil Father’s day week end by watching the game and their suddenly dismal offense ( I just heard my wife moan…not good!!)…..Maybe a double Martini is in order!!!!
G-BuryMan,
Not quite true, in the case of this poll you only get one vote!! Besides at this point even I wouldn’t vote for Manny 25 times…..
so someone can’t vote from different computer terminals?
Hi G-BuryMan
Sadly I guess what you suggest could be possible. I was assuming ( perhaps incorrectly ) that if you had to be logged in to post, that you also had to be logged in to vote, and what was being tracked was your log in info to prevent exactly what you are suggesting.
In any case I don’t at all disagree with you and HH that this sort of poll is very unscientific, and certainly not something to take to the bank. But certainly since I was assuming what was being shown here was actually the honest results of those who voted here I was impressed at how many voted against this tax……
You must log in to post a comment.