Most of us were stunned and horrified by the tragedy in Cheshire this week. While details are still coming out about the home invasion that left a popular doctor severely beaten, and his wife and two young daughters dead, we do know a few things.
The details are gruesome. The daughters were both tied to their beds, at least one was sexually assaulted. The wife was brought to a bank to withdraw money by one of the perpetrators. When she was returned to the house, she was killed. The animals committing this crime lit the house on fire to cover their tracks, and the young daughters may have actually been left to burn alive. The father, who was beaten severely, barely escaped. It is a sobering story that should make us all hold our families a little closer tonight.
The two suspects aprehended for this crime have long criminal histories. These two men, if guilty, have committed a crime of incredible senselessness, brutality and beastliness. If there is a crime deserving of the death penalty, this would certainly be it; Under Connecticut law, someone can be given capital punishment if they are guilty of a murder in the process of committing a felony, murder someone they have kidnapped, murder someone in the process of committing first degree sexual assault, murder more than one person, and murder someone under the age of 16. These beasts managed to do all of these things in one evil outing.
Connecticut still has a working death penalty, but it is rarely used. The last person on Death Row to be executed in this state was serial killer Michael Ross in 2005. Prior to that, 45 years went by without a single execution. Connecticut executes by the use of lethal injection.
I believe that there are crimes so savage that the perpetrators forfeit the right to live. This is certainly one of them.
86 responses so far ↓
This is a very tough call for me. The death penalty is not a deterent (especially in CT), but that’s largely because we live in such a litigious state. How do you justify being so aghast at the heinous loss of three lives, and then turn around and take the life of others? That being said, these creeps should cease to exist. Given their records, they should have been behind bars to begin with, but that’s a whole other argument.
Good points CT. The death penalty doesn’t thrill me. And I don’t really know if it’s a deterrent or not. Probably not. I have trouble imagining a serial killer making a skin suit in his basement being deterred by a possible death sentence.
But I think society has the right to pull the plug on those who do things like this.
Capital punishment is rarely, if ever, a deterrent. However, these two, if found guilty, should be put to death with nary a delay thus insuring that they will never again kill. The longer we hold such people while they pursue stay after stay, and appeal after appeal the greater the chance of their escape or even their release by some lunatic judge, persuasive psychiatrist, or sympathetic parole board
They need to be released into a major lock-up’s general population as soon as possible.
That might aid in giving the victim’s loved one’s some closure and it would save the taxpayers a bundle to boot.
As much as the facts are gruesome, if one is against the death penalty, one should always be against the death penalty. I don’t believe we as a society (and the government) should be killing. Regardless of how heinous the offense is.
Steadyjohn: I think we can safely say that if convicted, these two will never see the outside world again.
ACR: Yeah, that’s a good idea.
Capital punishment in Connecticut is not a deterrent because, until extremely recently, it was never used. Would a Speed Limit sign be a deterrent if the cops never pulled anyone over for speeding?
However, if we used it in 2005, and again in 2007, it certainly would make people think about kililng anyone in 21st Century Connecticut. (Of course, it took the state 20+ years to kill Michael Ross, so these two would take a while.)
If these guys did what the news stories have described — and I’ll give them the benefit of the legal system to prove their innocence — then they deserve nothing less than death, and probably much, much more.
The death penalty is gruesome.
This act was despicable, heinous, and beyond any comprehension….but I just cannot agree with y’all on the imposition of capital punishment. I believe that these two, if convicted, deserve to be locked in solitary from now to eternity, but I just can’t find it within myself to support the death sentence. HH, I respect where you’re coming from on this as the topic of capital punishment touches into so many other issues, but your last statement on perpetrators forfeiting the right to live….the thought of society passing that judgment just unsettles me to the core. There’s a very fine line to tread here, and it’s one that is always and will always be charged with emotion, but I am one to err on the side of imprisonment for life.
….that said, I sincerely hope that should these two be convicted, they should never again see the light of day.
[quote comment="16334"]Capital punishment in Connecticut is not a deterrent because, until extremely recently, it was never used. Would a Speed Limit sign be a deterrent if the cops never pulled anyone over for speeding?
However, if we used it in 2005, and again in 2007, it certainly would make people think about kililng anyone in 21st Century Connecticut. (Of course, it took the state 20+ years to kill Michael Ross, so these two would take a while.)
If these guys did what the news stories have described — and I’ll give them the benefit of the legal system to prove their innocence — then they deserve nothing less than death, and probably much, much more.[/quote]
Connecticut’s criminals aren’t unique. The existence of the death penalty is several other states across the country has shown that it is not a deterrent.
[quote comment="16335"]The death penalty is gruesome.[/quote]
Oh, I don’t know. They get a nice fluffy pillow before they get the three injections…
[quote comment="16337"]
Connecticut’s criminals aren’t unique. The existence of the death penalty is several other states across the country has shown that it is not a deterrent.[/quote]
How can it ever be a deterrent when death row inmates are more likely to die of old age than the needle?
Upon arriving at work this morning I spent a good deal of time staring at the front page of the Courant. The photo of the beautiful family. The older daughter’s plans to go to Dartmouth. Dr. and Mrs. Petit devoted much of their free time raising money for charity. Wow.
It’s rare that a news story stirs feelings of such intense sadness in me.
The husband and father who escaped is Bill Petit, Jr. I knew his father. I haven’t had any contact with him several years, but I knew him. He did a stint on the GOP state central committee as I recall. He and all of his kids are very civic-minded.
God bless the wife for somehow alerting the bank teller, and hats-off to the teller who had the presence-of-mind to call the police. It’s not much, given the scope of the crimes, but we can at least be thankful that the cops arrived in time to snag the two animals and that they are now in custody — literally with blood on their hands.
These are the crimes for which the death penalty exists.
If the case against these two isn’t a death penalty case, then Connecticut really shouldn’t have a death penalty.
Another thing that I’m more interested in is how were these guys not already in prison for life. One of them had 20 burglaries already. Is Connecticut more lenient than other states?
[quote comment="16339"][quote comment="16337"]
Connecticut’s criminals aren’t unique. The existence of the death penalty is several other states across the country has shown that it is not a deterrent.[/quote]
How can it ever be a deterrent when death row inmates are more likely to die of old age than the needle?[/quote]
So you’re saying that Connecticut’s criminals would be deterred if we used our death penalty more often, because they are somehow more afraid than those in the states that have the death penalty and use it often?
Look at Texas. How many on death row and how many join them every year. Death is not a deterrent.
Obviously, these guys are stupid…
They committed, what we all agree is an absolutely heinous crime, in basically the only judicial district that actively seeks the death penalty.
One concern of anti-death penalty folks is the possibility that an innocent person will be put to death. That doesn’t seem to be the case here, since they were caught at the scene.
I, for one, think these two could be poster children for the death penalty.
This crime has been on my mind the last 24 hours. A horror movie that
came to life.
I hope John Connelly seeks the death penalty and they, swiftly, are put to death,
[quote comment="16337"]Connecticut’s criminals aren’t unique. The existence of the death penalty is several other states across the country has shown that it is not a deterrent.[/quote]
How so? The studies that you’ve likely read don’t show how often criminals are executed. Take Connecticut, for example. We’ve had the death penalty for years, yet didn’t use it until Michael Ross. Your studies will likely list us as a “death penalty state” because we have a statute on the books, but does that make sense?
We’ve got eight people on “death row.” Take a guess as to how many will be executed. The over/under is probably 0.5. So… are we really a death penalty state?
I agree with GMR.
Branching off on a protracted discussion about whether or not these crimes warrant the death penalty, or whether the penalty should be on the books, is tempting but it might well be a tedious waste of time. There will never be a solid consensus on that point; thoughtful people on all sides will always agree to disagree on this issue, even in the face of crimes such as this.
I think sometimes penalties must be applied, if only because a civilized society is entitled to exact punishment for the sake of justice in itself — whether or not there is an element of deterence involved. But that’s me.
But look, these vermen should not have been loose on the streets. Yes, it’s easy to say that now, once yesterday’s crimes have occured. I get that. I appreciate that point.
On the other hand, when someone has a rapsheet 16 pages long one might reasonably surmise that he has no regard for the law. And we are all at risk if he is not locked up.
[quote comment="16344"]Obviously, these guys are stupid…
They committed, what we all agree is an absolutely heinous crime, in basically the only judicial district that actively seeks the death penalty.
One concern of anti-death penalty folks is the possibility that an innocent person will be put to death.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here, since they were caught at the scene.
I, for one, think these two could be poster children for the death penalty.
This crime has been on my mind the last 24 hours. A horror movie that
came to life.
I hope John Connelly seeks the death penalty and they, swiftly, are put to death,[/quote]For that, Attorney Connelly would have to seek a transfer to New Haven.
[quote comment="16345"][quote comment="16337"]Connecticut’s criminals aren’t unique. The existence of the death penalty is several other states across the country has shown that it is not a deterrent.[/quote]
How so? The studies that you’ve likely read don’t show how often criminals are executed. Take Connecticut, for example. We’ve had the death penalty for years, yet didn’t use it until Michael Ross. Your studies will likely list us as a “death penalty state” because we have a statute on the books, but does that make sense?
We’ve got eight people on “death row.” Take a guess as to how many will be executed. The over/under is probably 0.5. So… are we really a death penalty state?[/quote]
So again, just so I understand the argument, Connecticut’s potential killers are different than those in other states, because if we suddenly start using the death penalty, it will be a deterrent here, because we’re special. Let’s ignore the volumes of evidence from other states that regularly use the death penalty that death is not a deterrent.
I must be missing something.
[quote comment="16347"][quote comment="16344"]Obviously, these guys are stupid…
They committed, what we all agree is an absolutely heinous crime, in basically the only judicial district that actively seeks the death penalty.
One concern of anti-death penalty folks is the possibility that an innocent person will be put to death.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here, since they were caught at the scene.
I, for one, think these two could be poster children for the death penalty.
This crime has been on my mind the last 24 hours. A horror movie that
came to life.
I hope John Connelly seeks the death penalty and they, swiftly, are put to death,[/quote]For that, Attorney Connelly would have to seek a transfer to New Haven.[/quote]
Ohhh my bad…
I thought (hoped) Cheshire was in Waterbury district, not Meridan.
Maybe that state’s attorney will grow a set and seek the death penalty.
This crime happened in the next town over from me, and as it happens I was having an eye exam yesterday with my eye DR. who lives on the same street as this family in Cheshire, and of course knew them. To say he was shaken to death himself, is at least an understatement.
I have never believed the death sentence is any sort of deterrent….What possibly could be a deterrent to anyone who would consider taking anyone’s life for any reason….
I also think there are crimes so heinous that those who commit them forfeit any right to continue to exist anywhere with the rest of society……..Without a doubt this is a perfect example……In fact if CT had no death sentence, this crime would scream that one be created. For these two burning at he stake gets my vote.
[quote comment="16349"][quote comment="16347"][quote comment="16344"]Obviously, these guys are stupid…
They committed, what we all agree is an absolutely heinous crime, in basically the only judicial district that actively seeks the death penalty.
One concern of anti-death penalty folks is the possibility that an innocent person will be put to death.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here, since they were caught at the scene.
I, for one, think these two could be poster children for the death penalty.
This crime has been on my mind the last 24 hours. A horror movie that
came to life.
I hope John Connelly seeks the death penalty and they, swiftly, are put to death,[/quote]For that, Attorney Connelly would have to seek a transfer to New Haven.[/quote]
Ohhh my bad…
I thought (hoped) Cheshire was in Waterbury district, not Meridan.
Maybe that state’s attorney will grow a set and seek the death penalty.[/quote]I don’t see how he doesn’t. He has to.
The question whether the death penalty deters murderers is a dead end question. To answer it, one would have to know how potential murders were thwarted because the potential murderer feared death. How do you go about producing such statistics when you cannot know who the potential murderer is? The proper question is: Under what circumstances would a death penalty be just, and justice has little to do with deterrence. We do not decline to punish people for bank robbery because we cannot be certain the punishment will deter other bank robbers. We punish the bank robber because justice is the giving to a man what is due him under law. The question of a just punishment arises in connection with the severity of the punishment relative to the crime.
I don’t know about a deterent….
But justice would be best served if these two receive the ulitmate penalty.
We’re supposed to be above the level of ruthless and worthless killers. They’ll spend the rest of their lives miserable and locked up, but Connecticut should not be in the business of taking lives.
I wrote this about Michael Ross two years ago, and I think a lot of what it says is still relevant:
A lot of people are going to be ashamed of Connecticut after this is done. We’re going to feel a little sick. I live only a few miles from the prison in Somers where he’ll die, and I’ve driven past there and thought about what’s going to happen inside early on some cold, dark winter morning. It’s close to home. It’s us, this time, instead of Texas or some other state where this happens every other week, and many of us just aren’t comfortable with it, whether we believe in the death penalty or not.
We shouldn’t be comfortable. Executing a man isn’t a comforting thing. It’s something that must be done, perhaps, but heaven forbid we ever get used to it.
Is the death penalty justice, or is it vengeance? Is it a real deterrant to crime or just a distant threat? Are we doing the right thing?
I don’t know. But I’m glad we’re asking.
Michael Ross’s crimes were sickeningly, grotesquely awful–he was another textbook example of why the death penalty exists. But the questions remained: was it right for the state to kill him? What’s the point of the death penalty, and the justice system as a whole?
I’m not opposed to the death penalty. But I do think we need to very carefully consider what we’re about and what we’re after when we seek it. If we want to kill because we want to send a message about certain horrifying types of crimes, then we need to be at peace with that.
Capital punishment is like an institutionalized gang hit. … You kill one of ours, we kill you.
In essence, we become cold-blooded killers, and are therefore no better than the people we’re putting to death.
You can justify it any way you want to … the crimes were horrible, etc., but in snuffing the life of the murderer, we become murderers. We become the evil we are trying to eliminate.
I can not understand how a quick, painless death followed by eternal dark and quiet is worse than life imprisonment. These are relatively young men and decades alone with only the voices in their own heads would be a far more fitting punishment.
oldswede
Call it what you want, but the Supreme Court says it’s not “cruel and unusual.”
If these guys are convicted of doing what we believe they’ve done, they deserve the very worst punishment Connecticut has to offer. Right now, that is death.
CONDOLENCES
Glorified and sanctified be Divine’s great name throughout the world which was created according to its will. May Nature establish its kingdom in our lifetime and during our days, and within the life of the entire House of Human-kind, speedily and soon; and say, Amen
May its great name be blessed forever and to all eternity
Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be , beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.
May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Human-kind; and say, Amen.
Divine who creates peace in celestial heights, may create peace for us and for all Human-kind; and say, Amen.
Respectfully,
Bo ItsHaky
How disheartening, Headless, to see eye for an eye vengeance dominating the discussion when I log on this morning.
Understanding the gruesome gravity of the crime, I still cannot advocate for the death penalty. I can’t fathom how with all the problems facing our society, the resurrection of a means of punishment that the rest of our Western Industrial counterparts did away with decades ago merits consideration.
Sure, what happened in Cheshire was barbarous, but for us a people to respond with similar barbarism demonstrates a simplistic grasp of crime, deterrence and retribution which will always fail to succeed in a complex, nuanced world.
[quote comment="16357"]I can not understand how a quick, painless death followed by eternal dark and quiet is worse than life imprisonment. These are relatively young men and decades alone with only the voices in their own heads would be a far more fitting punishment.
oldswede[/quote]
I have to say that this is really the only argument against the death penalty that I think has merit. Death may be too good for some. Certainly the monsters involved in the Cheshire crimes deserve worse. Perhaps life in general population having their pink parts vended for cartons of smokes, constantly living in fear of being stuck with a shiv in the showers would do.
But that is when punishment becomes retribution. To me, the death penalty represents the removal of a cancer on society.
[quote comment="16360"]
Sure, what happened in Cheshire was barbarous, but for us a people to respond with similar barbarism demonstrates a simplistic grasp of crime, deterrence and retribution which will always fail to succeed in a complex, nuanced world.[/quote]
Pray tell… what progressive and intellectual solutions to capital crime have you gleamed while touring the high-minded salons of Europe? Those of us with this ‘barbaric’ inclination would love to know.
[quote comment="16361"][quote comment="16357"]I can not understand how a quick, painless death followed by eternal dark and quiet is worse than life imprisonment. These are relatively young men and decades alone with only the voices in their own heads would be a far more fitting punishment.
oldswede[/quote]
I have to say that this is really the only argument against the death penalty that I think has merit. Death may be too good for some. Certainly the monsters involved in the Cheshire crimes deserve worse. Perhaps life in general population having their pink parts vended for cartons of smokes, constantly living in fear of being stuck with a shiv in the showers would do.
But that is when punishment becomes retribution. To me, the death penalty represents the removal of a cancer on society.[/quote]
Except to remove it we have to become the cancer. State sponsored murder is still murder. The death penalty won’t stop murders from happening. It can’t bring the victim back to life. It serves no purpose beyond quenching some misguided blood lust, and even that satisfaction is only temporary.
Executing the most vicious murderers doesn’t make us murderers in return, anymore than putting down a rabid animal makes us inhumane.
Let’s all imagine a world where there is no black and white… only shades of gray and the colors of the rainbow! No guns, just paintbrushes! Where choirs of angels sing us to sleep at night because that day we hugged some sick people and gave a can of Alpo to a homeless guy, assuring us that we are good people!
Does such a place exist? You bet it does… let’s go to…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1UWSD-FaA
The logic of genocide.
Headless Horseman,
“Sure, what happened in Cheshire was barbarous, but for us a people to respond with similar barbarism demonstrates a simplistic grasp of crime, deterrence and retribution which will always fail to succeed in a complex, nuanced world.”
I read that same line this morning and just silently shook my head as well as you:
….”A simplistic grasp of crime??????”
Yes I think it fair to say that for many of us our reactions are an eye for an eye…If that is barbarous then so be it….. But our reactions unlike the actions of these two does not kill people.
We have a clearly defined legal system that will step by step, assure these two every legal opportunity to protect their rights under the law. Unlike any opportunity they gave their helpless victims to live……Our justice system will try it’s best to protect them from physical harm while on trial, see that they are kept comfortable and safe as well as treated in a very civilized way. And even though in this case there is no doubt of guilt, our legal system will afford these two every possible chance to somehow demonstrate they are not deserving of death.
By the time whatever final sentence these two receive is carried out, they will have been afforded far time, and countless more chances to influence that sentence, then they gave the three people they murdered……
IMO the death sentence has nothing to do with deterrence….. These two already had decided as they carried out their actions that their own lives meant nothing to them….. How strange then to call those of us who are now content to allow our legal system to place a higher value on their lives as it considers their future, then they themselves placed on them to be barbarous……
[quote comment="16366"]
The logic of genocide.[/quote]
LMAO!!!!
This from a guy who would never see America lift a finger to actually stop a genocide.
Al,
I totally agree with you. I am not interested in deterrence. And it has nothing to do with blood lust. Some criminals need to be put down. These two men can’t be reformed. Should they manage to get out of prison, they are a threat to society.
Wow, great to see Headless has emerged from his two week vacation, and with a vengenace!
Of course my gut screams “kill the bastards”! I am so glad the murderers got caught, and what a heinous tragedy for Cheshire to endure.
But do I want to join Bush and the GOP in clamoring for more state sponsored executions? Only if someone can convince me that no innocent man has ever been killed at the hands of the state. (Which you can’t.)
[quote comment="16364"]Executing the most vicious murderers doesn’t make us murderers in return, anymore than putting down a rabid animal makes us inhumane.[/quote]
I strongly disagree. It absolutely makes us murderers. The death penalty is a vile practice. We can and should be above eye for an eye.
What as a society have we ever done that has worked as a deterrent to crimes like this? Nothing will work. These guys are WAAAYYY gone and any consequences to their actions were the last of their worries. To be honest, I’d rather take the cheapest solution to this. Whether that’s general population, the death penalty or something else. I think they should die for what they’ve done, but the system we have in place proves so costly to the people and we wait an impossible amount of time to put them to death (if at all). There are others out there just like them. You can’t honestly say that they would have stopped before killing these people and said to eachother “You know, if we kill them then we could get the death penalty”. Yeah, right. Come back home Dorothy and Toto. IMO if this had been a perfect world, they would have died in the car crash or the police would have shot them in self-defense as they crashed into the barricade. I would have reimbursed the state for the cost of the bullets.
>>if this had been a perfect world, they would have died in the car crash or the police would have shot them in self-defense as they crashed into the barricade.
I agree, but alas, it’s not a perfect world.
The death penalty does cost us too much, (endless appeals) and there’s always the remote chance that some poor soul might get framed and railroaded.
Never-the-less these two should meet their maker sooner than later and a “mistake” at one of the lockups shouldn’t raise too many eyebrows and would be quickly forgotten.
However, I know a few CT Correction Officers so in the event that they wind up after a year or so of trials sitting at Osborn, fear not as here’s what happens daily (nightly actually) to Camacho (sp?) the punk that killed 4 people in Southington a few years ago, including an innocent 17 year old girl. Every night just as he finally slips to sleep one of the guards whacks his feet with a night stick shouting “you ok? are you breathing?” - when Camacho complains “why do you guys do this to me all the time?” he’s answered “you killed a 17 year old girl you ________”.
He’s not a sympathetic character and is not treated well by anyone; further he’s in solitary.
I appreciate the discussion about the death penalty here and this is certainly the case that is deserving of bringing up the discussion for so many of us. Personally I am against the death penalty, but would never judge someone who disagreed, especially in a case like this. I would simply cast my single democratic (little “d”) vote if that was a deciding factor.
While this string debates the “deterrent factor” of the death penalty, I believe we should really be discussing the undebatable “deterrent factor” of keeping these people and people like them behind bars - IN THE FIRST PLACE! Our laws and/or the criminal justice/social service system FAILED!!
I have long been a fan of two policies, either one of which I would love to see implemented in CT: A truth-in-sentencing law; or a “three-strikes” law. As I do not believe that those who commit the most heinous crimes that lead to death penalty discussions will ever be “deterred” by the various criminal penalties as they cross state lines, we must in turn stop the criminal progression towards more serious and violent crimes.
CGG - I doubt you’d feel that way if a tragedy like this happened to you.
With the rap sheet that these guys had they should not have been allowed to walk the streets - and yes, we have a real problem with parole boards being stacked with liberals who think it’s ok for human garbage like this to walk the streets. yeah - they ARE human garbage. There is no helping them - there is no rehabilitating them, and there is no deterring them. So sorry I am not in favor of keeping them fed, housed and clothed for the rest of their miserable lives. They are not worth that to me.
Three beautiful human beings lives were ended because of these animals - Those beautiful daughters were raped and tortured for christ’s sake !
The mother was strangled to death and their home was burned and destroyed.
For what?
And you believe the best punishment is a comfortable life in prison at the taxpayers expense?
That unfortunate father has to live with this (if he survives) the rest of his life.
This beautiful and accomplished family was totally destroyed.
Eye for an eye works for me. And I am all for swift justice as well.
Make them pay for this crime with their own life. It is totally fitting.
I have had a pit in my stomach since I heard about these gruesome murders, I do not know any of the victims- but since Waterbury is just down the road- there are many people that I know who speak highly of all of the victims. There is almost nothing to do, except pray for the victims and their family.
There’s no doubt these career criminals would plead guilty within months if the penalty were life without parole. No doubt the state will pursue the death penalty because of this sensational and sensless act hitting the front page — and the agony of it all wil go on and on and on. The death penalty is never the right punishment for anything.
Simplistic?
Life is so rare and exquisite a gift that there is no action which can merit the punishment of losing one’s life.
For us to decide that some are worthy to life and others not, elevates the state to the position of a god, and the state that worships itself is problematic. Death is not justice. It never will be.
I for one believe that any actions taken as a result of this tragedy by those in government are not just “reactionary politics,” and so that label should not be a valid argument against some sort of action. A clear failure occurred somewhere in the system and showed that flaws exist and need to be fixed.
I live in a rural community with a wife and two small children and for the first time in years, I locked my doors the past two nights.
First, Kudos to Headless Horseman for bringing this topic up. It is currently dominating news coverage throughout the state and for good reason. It is one of the most heinous crimes to take place within our borders in a very long time.
In the documents that establish this nation, there is clearly the ability for society to impose ANY penalty for crimes. You may disagree with the penalties our state legislature has established but clearly, there is a legal right for the state to do so.
Consistently, a majority in the state legislature, State and U.S Supreme Courts find the death penalty is legal. All the morality issues capital punishment opponents can muster have not & will not change this fact.
For those who say the death penalty is gruesome, barbaric, etc:
Society finds penalties that fit the crime, dependent on the prevailing morality of the times. In this regard, you are in the minority here. What these vermin did in Cheshire and what every death row inmate in our state has done very much warrant the punishment. Murder and manslaughter are often vicious crimes. Sadly, they pale in comparison to the horrors that can get you a death sentence in Connecticut That punishment is (as HH noted) truly reserved for the most evil on earth.
For those who argue that the “Connecticut should not be in the business of taking lives”:
You can describe it in any way you like to convey what is an emotional reaction. Nevertheless, ‘Taking a life’ for these crimes IS a just punishment.
So let’s try this one: “in snuffing the life of the murderer, we become murderers. We become the evil we are trying to eliminate.”
Again, very emotional, yet still false. Execution in Connecticut’s legal system, where there are so many checks and balances that it actually has not been carried out in more than 45 years without the convict’s consent, is not murder. We are ensuring that these individuals pay a just price for their deeds. (One demotion to corporal for this poster)
The genocide stuff is so ridiculous it can’t be argued against. Talk about straw grasping.
And for the Europe-trotting Ken: “elevates the state to the position of a god”…
‘A’ god?! No lone supreme being huh? Perhaps we need to see how Apollo and Poseidon have weighed in on fates of killers…
This is way far too lengthy a post but the only arguments that earn my respect against the death penalty are from immediate family members. So..if your mother’s brother’s cousin, etc. was murdered in the past and think this qualifies you in that regard (as horrible as such incidents were for the victim and their families)…no sale. Death penalty offenses, immediate family.
Were Dr. Petit to argue against the death penalty when these criminals come to trial, I would give his opinion some credence.
But for everyone who says ‘Connecticut should not be in the business of taking lives’ and ‘We become the evil we are trying to eliminate’ , such horror hasn’t impacted YOU yet.
Pray it never does.
What i find odd about both this debate is that many of the D’s here are arguing against the death Pen. Yet are in favor of abortion….you can’t argue morality against the death Pen and ignore the morality issue with abortion.
Me personally i am at least a consistant in my beliefs…I think a women has the right to chose and i think the Death Pen is exactly what the punishment should be….
And i know….the GOP is conflicted to….against abortion for morality reasons and in favor of the death penalty…the only group that has it right is the catholic church….against all of it….
From CNN:
Prosecutor Michael Dearington told the AP that he had not yet decided whether to pursue the death penalty in the case. “I know the public consensus is they should be fried tomorrow,” he told AP.
This is one of the most disgusting crimes I have ever heard of. On this blog some are saying that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent, who cares, they don’t deserve to live. You think that sitting in a cell for the rest of their lives will make them think about what they have done. No way, a crime like this is committed by men who dont care about anything in life. They wont be sitting in their cell thinking about the mistakes they have made, they will be sitting there wondering when they will get the chance to do it again.
I agree with others when they say the only better thing would be to let them out in the general population and see what happens. Better yet i say you tie them down to a bed, sexually assult them, then lite them on fire. We all know that that is not going to happen so I say the next best thing is to get them off this planet and let them meet their maker who will decide what to do with this scum.
El Kabong, execution is a revenge murder—the state is killing someone for committing a horrible crime, when it could imprison that person for life instead. In the name of justice, the state commits a conscious, cold-blooded act of murder. That makes us—as citizens of the state—no better than the criminal. He kills, we kill. It’s the same.
You call it justice—and it may be yours or the state’s idea of justice—but it’s still a revenge killing. We become the killer—no better than the murderer—just another killer.
theTruth,
It is not often that someone posts what I consider such a simple and clear example of double standards….. I congratulate you on your post # 52………Just prefect!!!!!!
I would love, I mean just love, to see the logic from anyone who can say they approve of the killing of an unborn baby simply because it is guilty of being “inconvenient” and then claim that the execution of those who commit such heinous crimes as these is akin to state murder.
[quote comment="16373"]>>if this had been a perfect world, they would have died in the car crash or the police would have shot them in self-defense as they crashed into the barricade.
I agree, but alas, it’s not a perfect world.
The death penalty does cost us too much, (endless appeals) and there’s always the remote chance that some poor soul might get framed and railroaded.
Never-the-less these two should meet their maker sooner than later and a “mistake” at one of the lockups shouldn’t raise too many eyebrows and would be quickly forgotten.
However, I know a few CT Correction Officers so in the event that they wind up after a year or so of trials sitting at Osborn, fear not as here’s what happens daily (nightly actually) to Camacho (sp?) the punk that killed 4 people in Southington a few years ago, including an innocent 17 year old girl. Every night just as he finally slips to sleep one of the guards whacks his feet with a night stick shouting “you ok? are you breathing?” - when Camacho complains “why do you guys do this to me all the time?” he’s answered “you killed a 17 year old girl you ________”.
He’s not a sympathetic character and is not treated well by anyone; further he’s in solitary.[/quote]
Glad to know that our Correctional officers are living up to their mission statement.
[quote comment="16392"]What i find odd about both this debate is that many of the D’s here are arguing against the death Pen. Yet are in favor of abortion….you can’t argue morality against the death Pen and ignore the morality issue with abortion.
Me personally i am at least a consistant in my beliefs…I think a women has the right to chose and i think the Death Pen is exactly what the punishment should be….
And i know….the GOP is conflicted to….against abortion for morality reasons and in favor of the death penalty…the only group that has it right is the catholic church….against all of it….[/quote]
I hold both those beliefs and I do not find them incongruent. In both cases, I am taking a stand against the power of the government. In one (death penalty), I do not believe the State should be in the killing business and that we, as a society, should be above “eye for an eye”.
In the second, I do not believe the State should be in the business of dictating personal choice and freedom. A woman possesses the right to choose whether to have the baby or not and the State should not be telling her what to do with her body.
So, no, my positions are not inconsistent.
[quote comment="16395"]it’s still a revenge killing. We become the killer—no better than the murderer—just another killer.[/quote]
This is perhaps, the most absurd argument, fueled purely by a misplaced sense of morality/righteousness possible.
The crimes these individuals are alleged to have committed:
Beating a man senseless, raping at least one (but more than likely more than one female), strangling one to death, and leaving two to burn to death (they died from smoke inhilation).
By executing them, we would be equalling their crimes?!!!
Everytime you think you’ve read it all, come back to ctlocalpoltics, you WILL read something more preposterious. Guaranteed.
Demoted to pvt. See the staff sgt.
How’s this?
Michael Ross,…..wanted the death penalty!
Stephen Hayes,…..is on suicide watch!
Now,…..is a simple peaceful three needle transition, eyes get heavy, fall asleep, die in sleep, out of the misery surrounding these people’s lives really some sort of huge punishment? I guess it is if you believe in an undergroud fire and brimstone with a little red guy with horns and a pitchfork, but….really?……
Most people, including I’d guess 98% of this blog will not have a death as peaceful as the one the state administers.
The death penalty is too kind for these two. Lock em up for life. Feed em shit food, have guards harrass them, and then let them out for an hour to get jumped by the general population from now until whenever.
My main objection to the Death Penalty is that it makes me, and each and everyone of us, a murder. A murder carried out by the State, where the people are the ultimate sovereigns and the State is nothing more than a mechanism of collective will of the people (ie the People vs…), makes each member of that state at least fractionally responsible. I don’t want that on my head, especially when it is something no one can find a better argument for than a primitive revenge fantasy. Lock them up, let no one talk to them for the rest of their lives. It would cost us less too.
“I would love, I mean just love, to see the logic from anyone who can say they approve of the killing of an unborn baby simply because it is guilty of being “inconvenient” and then claim that the execution of those who commit such heinous crimes as these is akin to state murder.” -Al
When would you say the baby is alive? Talk to different people you get diffent opionions. Hartford Catholic Church says one thing, New Jersey and New York Say another, FDA says another, Jews say yet another.
Also Al,
Since you’re apparently against legal abortions than I have no choice but to say you are for back alley abortions, because that is the most immediate consequence. You bastard. What kind of sicko is for back alley abortions?
Republitarian,
I’ve always seen a lot of the Republi- from you, but I’ve never seen any of the -tarian, what gives?
republitarian is some weird phrase coined by Larry Elders, adopted locally by Vicevich. Almost every person I’ve heard use that phrase to describe themselves is more Conservative Republican than libertarian. I think it makes them feel less weenyish, a little edgier than their conservative pals. A true libertarian wants free markets yes, but also does not object to porn, drugs, abortion, and good gay wedding.
clarification: does not object to those things for others or in some cases him or herself.
[quote comment="16400"]Most people, including I’d guess 98% of this blog will not have a death as peaceful as the one the state administers.
The death penalty is too kind for these two. Lock em up for life. Feed em shit food, have guards harrass them, and then let them out for an hour to get jumped by the general population from now until whenever.[/quote]
for reals: Stop it, stop it, stop it!!!
You’re making me like you….
[quote comment="16400"]
Most people, including I’d guess 98% of this blog will not have a death as peaceful as the one the state administers.
The death penalty is too kind for these two. Lock em up for life. Feed em shit food, have guards harrass them, and then let them out for an hour to get jumped by the general population from now until whenever.[/quote]
All true. Yet, the death penalty isn’t about retribution to me. It’s about putting down a rabid beast who preys on us.
adamcs95 - I’ve always seen a lot of the the adamcs from you but I never seen any of the 95 from you, what gives?
- and I never said I was a true libertarian, and I never said I was a Republican.
Deal with it.